Time-restricted eating and the effect of late night eating | Satchin Panda

Time-restricted eating and the effect of late night eating | Satchin Panda

[Rhonda]: I guess, also, what I was wondering
is if you think about it, like, so the minute you start your metabolism clocks in your liver,
for example… [Satchin]: Yeah. [Rhonda]: …the minute you start those metabolism
clocks by your first sip of coffee and breakfast, the clock’s ticking and you’re insulin-sensitive. You’re gonna be able to, you know, take glucose
up into various cells after you eat. And then once you get past that time, so you’re
now 12 hours out, you’re not gonna be as insulin-sensitive. So, let’s take someone that is doing intermittent
fasting, and they wake up at 6:00 or 7 a.m. They have coffee and breakfast, a big breakfast,
and they’re done. So then they fast for 12 hours, so now it’s
7 p.m., maybe 13 hours, 7:30, 8 p.m. They’ve been fasting all day, so they’re getting
a lot of the activation of some of these… [Satchin]: Yeah. [Rhonda]: …you know, stress-response pathways
like AMP kinase and, you know, they’re making some ketone bodies, Kreb, all these similar
pathways are being activated. [Satchin]: Yeah. [Rhonda]: …that, you know, time-restricting
feeding also activates. But then, they take a big meal at 7:30 or
8 p.m., so 12 or 13 hours after they’ve already set their clock. [Satchin]: Yeah. [Rhonda]: So now in theory, then, they’re…well,
I don’t know if this is true or not, maybe the intermittent fasting changes some of this,
but, you know, their liver wouldn’t be, you know, it wouldn’t be working as well at that
point. Or do you think that just because they were
fasting all day that may change some of that and allow them to then eat this meal and it
wouldn’t have such a negative effect? [Satchin]: Yes, so that’s a very interesting
question that we get many times and we are thinking of addressing that. It’s very hard to do that in experimental
animal models because if you fast them, if you give them two meals, they reduce their
caloric intake, but it’s possible to do. But here is something that came out only in
last three to four weeks. You mentioned early in our conversation that
insulin sensitivity is not the same at the end of the day, and the question is, if you
fast enough during the day, is your insulin sensitivity as good enough as in the morning? [Rhonda]: Right. [Stachin]: Then everything you can equalize
is at least insulin, which is a big thing in metabolism [inaudible 00:55:42]. So recently, what we are finding is actually
the smoking gun came almost 10 years ago when people who are doing GWAS studies to find
whether there are mutations in given genes that make us more diabetic or obese, surprisingly,
people thought that, “Okay, so we’ll find some genes that regulate metabolism.” Right? So that is the common sense. But then the big surprise was they found melatonin
receptor as one of their top hits. [Rhonda]: Wow. [Satchin]: And some of the clock genes, like
cryptochromes, in the top five or ten genes. That is not only in one study. In multiple studies, they found it. So there are the smoking gun. What is melatonin doing with this obesity
and diabetes? And recently, what is interesting is people
are finding that melatonin receptor is present in pancreatic islet cells, beta cells, and
melatonin receptors, when it’s engaged with melatonin, it signals and it inhibits insulin
secretion. [Rhonda]: What? Really? [Satchin]: Yeah. So it just came out, like, four, five weeks… [Rhonda]: Wait, so you know that I’ve always
wondered, because, like, most of the melatonin in the body is actually made in the gut, right? So tryptophan from dietary protein gets converted
into serotonin… [Satchin]: Serotonin. [Rhonda]: …and that’s converted in melatonin. This is happening in the gut and… [Satchin]: No, serotonin goes to pineal and
then gets into… [Rhonda]: So there’s, so this, so the, it
happens in the gut and it also happens in the brain? [Satchin]: Yeah. [Rhonda]: There’s two separate genes that
do this. [Satchin]: Yeah. [Rhonda]: And what’s really interesting is
I don’t know what melatonin…why are we making it in our gut? So I’m wondering if it’s somehow signaling
to the pancreas. [Satchin]: Yeah, so this is completely new. So that’s why now it brings up…now, it helps
us to connect this dot that people have. I mean, for the last 35 years clinicians know
that the insulin sensitivity is very different between day and night. And then the GWAS, the human genetics people
came and said, “Yes, there is some smoking gun with melatonin.” And now, finally we are finally saying, “Yes,
melatonin receptor can actually inhibit insulin secretion.” So in that way, having an evening meal, maybe
with candle light dinner, is not a good idea because you have less light, so you have more
melatonin, and that can inhibit… [laughs] [Rhonda]: That’s fascinating. I have to get that study. It’s very, very interesting. [Satchin]: So that’s one case where we might
think that late night, even if you control food calorie, the same calorie taken in late
in the night versus early in the evening might have different effect. In fact, there was one study that came out
from Spain, two or three years ago now, showing that in a weight loss trial they actually
found…although everybody got the same diet, they were controlled for activity, clearly
there were two groups of people. One group lost weight significantly, a lot
of weight loss, and the other group lost moderate amount of weight. And when they did post-hoc analysis to see
what is the difference, the only difference they found was the group that lost weight,
they actually had their lunch…in Spain, people eat lunch at 3:00. So they ate lunch earlier whereas the group
that did not lose weight, two months, they ate their lunch later. So that is another piece in the puzzle saying
that late-night eating might actually prevent weight loss. [Rhonda]: Right. And you’ve now translated some of these findings
into some human trials using this smartphone app that you’ve developed. So that’s kind of neat as well. [Satchin]: Yeah. So one thing was we wanted to see is when
people actually eat. And in typical nutrition studies, people are
asked, “When do you eat lunch, breakfast, and dinner?” But that doesn’t capture, really, all snacking
and everything. So that’s why we thought how to capture when
people eat in a very evidence-based manner. And we thought if we asked people to take
a picture of their food, then the picture will speak a volume. It will have every single component. They would not have time to describe everything
on their plate, but we’ll capture that. It will also have the timestamp. So the whole idea was to see when do actually
people eat. Are there a lot of people who eat like mice
do that nibble throughout the day and night? And if they actually eat until, say for more
than 12 hours or 13 hours, then they are the ones who may benefit from time-restricted
feeding. So when we did this experiment, when we started
this project, we thought that…everybody we asked, they would say, “Yeah, I wake up,
I have my first sip of coffee and usually I eat all of my food within 12 hours.” So we were very discouraged to hear that. But then we carefully selected people who
don’t do a shift work so they will not have to work in the nighttime, that’s when they’re
changing their eating time, and they’re also not on any medication that will change their
hunger or satiety. So we took really healthy people from San
Diego area because we live here, and they just had to take a picture of their food. And that way, it was also less stressful for
them to enter what they ate, and portion size, etc. [Rhonda]: Way better compliance, I’m sure. [Satchin]: Yeah. There’s only three clicks, because if you
think about it, open the app, take a picture, and then press the save button. And the optional was they could actually describe
what they ate. But we found very few people actually describe
what they eat. So that means just typing that on your left
hand when you’re eating is not a very pleasant experience. What we found is out of these 156 people,
nearly 50% people eat during 15 hours. So that means between their first bite, non-water
bite, to the last non-water bite or sip in a given day is around 15 hours, which some
people think, “Oh, that’s normal because if they start their first sip of coffee at 6:00
in the morning, and then after dinner they’re watching their favorite show, and then had
another glass of wine or chips, that can go up to 9 p.m.” But then we asked…well, in mice, we can
actually take away food and enforce time-restricted feeding. We can’t do that with humans. They have to be self-motivated. So we asked whether it’s feasible for some
people to at least restrict the time. So we asked eight of them to see…they were
eating for 14 hours or longer and they were a little bit overweight, so we asked if they
can eat within 10 to 11 hours. And we said, “We are not going to ask you
to change what and how much you eat. The only thing you have to do is select your
own time, depending on what time you go to work or what time you come back, select your
own time until we’ll have 10 to 11 hours and try to stick to it every day, even on the
weekend.” And surprisingly, all of these eight people,
they self-selected their 10 hours, 10 to 11 hours, and they stuck to it for 16 weeks,
and at the end of 16 weeks they came back. We saw that they had lost around 4%, 3.8%
body weight within the 16 weeks. They didn’t have to do too many, they didn’t
have to read labels, they didn’t have to type portion size. But then when we asked them, “Why did you
do it,” what is surprising is they said they slept better and they felt more energetic
in the morning, and that’s why they did it. And since they didn’t have to count calories,
it was also good. But what is surprising is in mice, if you
do the same experiment, mice will chow down. They will eat the same number of calories
as when they have free access to food. But in humans, these people in our study,
they actually ate 20% less calories. Even though we asked them to reduce their
time, they ultimately reduced their calorie. But if you think about it, this is a much
better way to control, manage their diet than to count calories. So in some way this study is inconclusive
to say whether time restriction alone was beneficial for weight loss. But what it showed is the feasibility that
some people can time-restrict and that can be an indirect way to reduce your calorie. And since we’re collecting picture of every
single food, we can also ask another very simple question. “What is the time of the day when people are
more likely to eat certain type of food?” As you can imagine, we found people drink
most of their coffees, 70% of their coffee, within four to five hour’s interval in the
morning. And people ate 70% of their alcohol in the
evening, four to five hours. So now imagine if somebody’s time restricting
to the daytime, then he or she is more likely to lose on alcohol. So in that way, that also improves the quality
of diet. So since we humans eat different type of food
at different time of the day, depending on which interval we choose may indirectly result
in change in nutrition quality, and to some extent, quantity.

14 thoughts on “Time-restricted eating and the effect of late night eating | Satchin Panda

  1. Watch the full episode:

    FoundMyFitness episode page:

    More clips from this guest:

  2. When you are confined to a smaller window, you also have less opportunities to eat foods that contribute to daily macronutrient targets and micronutrients targets which prompts you to eat healthier.

  3. I work nights, heavy grocery lifting; I find no info on effects of OMAD. I eat my one meal several hours before work around 6PM. Bowl of quinoa, kale, 4 eggs, 2 spoons of coconut oil. No meat. Probiotic & vitamin d supplements. Some junk food. A cup of coffee at 8PM. No issues; no energy swings. Work straight all night busting my hump. I sip pink salt water sometimes, to replace lost minerals through urine. Anyone could direct me to info?

  4. Mice ain’t men
    She said , wow you done studies w humans !?!?
    Gave rats supplements and study showed comparative w people and found that if human took the same it would be either 8 pounds of liver or 9 pounds of brewers yeast
    Don’t listen to her , she is a intellectual moron
    I watch joe so stumbled across her and this dude I never saw him
    All you have to do is eat small meals and many of the to keep the sugar level ( wave ) from rising and falling

  5. Type 1 diabetics have consistently observed that insulin sensitivity does not diminish throughout the day. Typical basal insulin requirements tend to be higher in the morning than in the evening (while awake) and typical carb ratios are lower (requiring more insulin) for breakfast and tend to rise for lunch and for dinner.

  6. Melatonin also blocks adrenaline and cortisol release which lowers insulin needs (to balance the counter-regulatory effect of the stress hormones). So melatonin supresses insulin, but also reduces hormonal insulin resistance.

  7. Lastly, a late night meal raises insulin during the GH period of sleep, and insulin blocks GH secretion which ends up chronically raising cortisol levels, causing more insulin resistance/secretion at night, progressively blocking GH. I think that that is the self perpetuating loop of metabolic syndrome.

  8. Even if true, It is irrelevant vs impact of sugar and processed carbs and frequent eating. Valuable data but it might contribute and give bullets once again to the processed food industry. They gonna tell you eat early not past whatever. The same was done with exercise. If you are obese it is because you eat fat and don’t move your lazy a## enough… It is just another dead end in practicality for the obese and sick people. I don’t think animal watch the time for eating in nature ! They would eat when a prey is near by to be caught….b

  9. I only sleep well on a full stomach. People naturally sleep well after a meal. If its a natural process it cannot be wrong. Insulin maybe raised for 2 hrs in an 8hr sleep cycle but the other 6hrs are plenty to get growth hormone levels to peak levels. Most studies are flawed and don’t take all the factors into account and so cannot be said to be absolute. Late night eating will obvious result in weight loss as you are not active. But i dont eat breakfast or lunch, so it all balances out just fine. Fasted until 4pm in the afternoon.

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